Clio 16v won't start

Level 8 User Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 278

Stretched her legs up and down the road, parked and left sitting for a week.

Tried to start, and the battery wasn't too good but it fired once and banged then chug chug chug.

Tried a different battery, it turns over fine but no life.

Pulled the spark plugs out and took the petrol off with thinners. I then turned the engine over with the plugs out. All the plugs spark a yellow spark and the petrol is injected into the cylinders as it shoots out the plug holes.

The rev needle jumps once when the ignition is turned on and when cranking.

There is petrol in the car, the battery is good and I am getting fed up.

Haynes mentions a fuel cut-off switch, where is this?

Shouldn't be that but I can't think of anying else.

Used jump leads when cranking with the earth clipped to the engine, so it shouldn't be an earth.

Anyone got a match?

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

cambelt didnt snap when it "fired once and banged" did it?

probably a stupid suggestion, but its the best youre going to get from me!

Level 8 User Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 278

I took the plastic cover off at the bottom of the cambelt and the belt is still tight... thankfully.

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

well if the rev counter needle is jumping, theres fuel being injected and theres a spark albeit it a crap one then that narrows things down.

Fuels going in so it cannot be a fuel cut off and the fact its being injected means the ECU knows the engine is cranking.

So that can only leave the ignition system can't it.

the fact its yellow means its weak, it should be bright blue/almost white.

Depending on where you checked for a spark you prob can be a few places.

If you checked by earthing the coil to dizzy ht lead then its th edizzy, new ones aBOUT 15 QUID OR GO DOWN THE SCRAPPY AND GET ANOTHER, ANY OLD one from a ren clio/19/21 will do.

if you checked for a spark at the plugs then the dizzy cap and rotor arm are the suspects, even if they are new replacer them, new ones can be duff as well.

Level 8 User Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 278

Plugged a sparkplug into the coil to dis lead and still getting yellow sparks, but it seems stronger.
Tried a different lead but the result is the same.

I have another coil somewhere, it might be worth a shot.

However I have since discovered something more worrying:

Setup - Plugs in cylinders 1 & 3 and injectors plugged in on same cylinders.

During cranking there is petrol mist being forced from 2 & 4.

Either the exhaled unburnt mist is somehow sneeking into the inlet or outlet manifold and going into the adjacent cylinder ( I don't see how this is possible)
or
The new head gasket is leaking after 1 spin up and down the road.

Bullocks.

Level 8 User Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 278

Changed the coil to dis lead and am getting blue sparks now, but no cigar.

The plugs get covered in petrol when cranking.

Only things I can think of are to do a compression test and take the camshaft cover off to see if everything is okay.

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

the mist from the unused cylinders may be blowby?

have u got the leads on the dizzy in the right order?

if u just done the head gasket is it timed up right?

comp test will be good.

Level 8 User Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 278

Timing - The car was running fine, but I will take the cover off and check everything.

Leads - As above, but I will check.

Errr what is blowby? Is this when the piston rings are done?

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

yeah...pressure in the crankcase escaping past the rings into the cylinder and vice versa....i think.........may be wrong tho lol

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

right...

so where is this mist coming from?

Anyway I reckon you will find the engine is that full of fuel that its not gonna fire.

What to do is, discconect the cold start injectors wiring plug, then dissconnect the fuel injectors power feed (its on the cambelt end of the engine and its a rectangular plug) then try to start it with the throttle floored.

Then tell me what happens.

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

KABOOM!!!!!!!!

Level 8 User Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 278

Okay,

Couldn't find the fuel injector power feed so I disconnected each injector and the cold start injector.

Dud, dud, dud, dud, dud, etc from the induction kit.
(I think it's trying to tell me something)

That was with plugs in.

I joined up an injector to see what would happen, but nothing did.

Next with plugs out, it turned over rapidly and smoothly.

There was some mist from the plug holes initially but this stopped after a revolution.

I have left the plugs out so hopefully the petrol will evaporate.

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

lol sorry but you amuse me. What would you expect to see if you crank an engine with no plugs in thats injecting fuel?

Anyway the injector power feed, you know where the injected are, well if you follow the leads from the injectors to the cambelt cover you will see the connecting block, dissconnect it.

Then try and start it, you will need to rev it, it will fire once run for a second or 2 then die, crank again then when it cranks but shows no sign of stutterign to life reconnect the injector loom and it shoudl fire up and run.

Also dissconnect the CTS on the side of th ehead as this might be buggered, they usually are.

Level 8 User Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 278

The injectors go straight into the main loom, there isn't a plug on this yoke, but I think it had an engine transplant at one stage...
Working from the injector clips and going towards the camshaft and bulkhead:
Air temp
Charcoal box valve
Map sensor

Anyway, I disconnected all the injectors, CTS and connected the plugs then turned it over... no bangs or anything, it just turned over.

There is petrol on the pistons and on the plugs when the injectors were reconnected and the engine cranked. I tested the plugs immediately after this and they were sparking brightly.

Bloody car.

I haven't got round to checking the timing yet, this probably should be done next, but it was working.

I wonder is the petrol that bad that it won't ignite?
This will amuse you - How about joining an injector up and placing a plug over the top of the hole to see if it will burn... the world's first external combustion engine.

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

that cud get dangerous...

did u chk that u got the leads on the dizzy correctly?

Retroholic Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 5685

Not dangerous, he's irish. Well within his capabilities Very Happy

Level 8 User Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 278

Chet T16 wrote:

Not dangerous, he's irish. Well within his capabilities Very Happy

I'll check the leads later on tonight.

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

FYI in case u dont know leads are arranged as so...

lookin on the end of the dizzy from the passenger side...

top left is No. 4
top right is No.3
btm left is No. 2
and btm right is No. 1

Level 8 User Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 278

Right,

Checked the HT leads tonight, they are definitely in the right order.

Just remembered I put some oil in the petrol to stop the injectors ticking before all this, then took it for a spin a week or two later (see first post). Could it be that the oil has not mixed with the petrol, went to the bottom of the tank, got sucked into the fuel lines and the engine is getting so much oil that it would be better off as a diesel!!!?

Things to do:
Crank it over again just incase anything has changed
Wip the camshaft cover off to see if the cams are turning ok.
Check the timing is correct.
Drain the petrol and throw fresh stuff in.
Douse a rag in petrol, stuff it into the tank and light it.

Thanks for all the help/advice given to sort this out, we'll get her going yet.

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

lol

oil in the fuel lol

Crank it over, if its cranking over then the camshafts are turning. Engine would lock up solid and not rotate much if all all if the cams were not turning.

Unplug the fuel pump relay.

Also you could then try the correct HT lead order instead of JB's 90 degree out effort. top left looking from the passenger side it number 1 (this is going from the gear box to the belt end in other words the correct way). then bottom left is 3 then botm right is 4 and finally 2 is top right

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

i disagree with you on the ht lead order...go chk again