Clutch cable on a 19

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Hi all
OK heres the problem - I had a clutch cable changed by my local mechanic about 2 months ago, and it seemed ok up until last week, when I tried to park and couldn't get it in reverse. Being the suspicious person I am, I immediately suspected the cable, and so when I finally got parked up at home I investigated. Stuck my hand behind the pedal, and got stabbed by what can only be described as a heavily shagged clutch cable - it was all frayed and split just where it first contacts the pedal mechanism after coming through the bulkhead. After a bit more (careful) feeling about, I discovered that the guy had put the cable OVER the guide and not through it Sad

- hence bolloxed cable, which I can only assume was getting severely mangled by the ratchet everytime I used the clutch.
So went back, told him exactly what was wrong (hehe I love being able to do that!) and he put a new one on for free. Now the clutch works again, but the pedal is a total arse to use, and there is only just 20mm of slack at the bell housing (measured as per Haynes manual) so I'm suspecting either
a) I need a new pedal
b) he's put the wrong length cable on
c) he's not put the cable in right (again)
d) I'm stupid and can't get used to the new pedal feel
It is to elimate primarily option d) that I'm posting here - the pedal feel is basically; top half inch to inch of travel is floppy (no strain is put on clutch cable), next roughly half of pedal travel is where the clutch actually engages, followed by what feels like a brief stiffening of the pedal as you push further, and then back to 'normal' down to the floor.
Is this how the pedal should be? It's definately different from the old cable (and the one before that, which I think was original) in terms of feel, notably its stiffer and there is that wierd extra pedal resistance half way down. I've checked the cable routing and it looks ok round the pedal - it goes through the guide hole right - under the bonnet, he has used the clip nearest to the pedal end, but not the next clip along, and then he has used the clip under the water expansion bottle, and then into the bellhousing bracket. It does look a bit of a tight fit in the 'expansion bottle' clip though, so I'm wondering if this could be causing problems, as the cable looks a bit squashed. Also the outer-outer cable (the outermost cable) seems to stop a bit short of the bellhousing bracket - you can see the outer cable (middle cable) exposed for about an inch before the bracket, but I don't know if this has any significance (like indicating he has put the wrong cable on - although I don't know if R19 cables vary in length across models).

Please can someone tell me whether something is buggered, or whether this all sounds normal? I'm getting bloody paranoid about it now - I'd rather sort it now before the new cable gets shagged if anything is wrong than have it snap on me on another bloody dual carriageway roundabout!

Thanks for your input - hopefully I haven't made myself look like a total noob prat Very Happy

Alex

PS. If pics would be helpful I can get some from under the bonnet - not sure about the pedal end though.

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

sounds pretty normal to me...clutch cables on the 19 arent the best in the world...ive had loads snap on me, but tbh only on a p1...the p2 i got now ive had for nigh on 4 yrs and only once i have had a cable wear out...caught just in time thankfully...but the p1 went like every yr or less....i think its mostly down to crap fitting.

the description of the travel on the pedal sounds like mine....i gotta mash mine quite hard into the floor to ensure full disengagement...i even tried taking up some of the slack at the release fork end with washers...

get a bit of grease on the cable where it passes thru the bulkhead behind the pedal for extra security...

if there seems to be a lot of exsesive slack, maybe the mech on the pedal for takin it up is a bit knackered?

JB

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Thanks for the reply - I'm not sure I've explained properly - the clutch engages around the half way point on the pedal travel, so I don't have to mash the pedal to get it to engage (I did have to when the cable was buggered) - quite the reverse in fact. The clutch engages quickly and the pedal is damn stiff. It's all most as if the cable is too short rather than too long - if I pull the cable out from the release fork and pull it, I only just get 20mm of slack (between the release fork and the end of the cable).
I'll try spraying some WD40 on the cable at the bulkhead and let it seep down. I was wondering whether the cable routing sounded roughly ok, or whether I should try re-routing it.
The car is a crappy old 1.4 Energy btw - forgot to mention that! I don't know if other models have shorter length cables which the mechanic could have put in by mistake or not - can anyone clarify this?

Alex

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

well i dunno but being able to pull 20mm out of the end of the fork sounds very slack to me...

how old is the clutch do you know? they get stiff quite quick even after a new one...

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Ahh its an ancient clutch as far as I know. I think its original, and the cars an F reg. Its just on 88k now, but quite a lot of the last 30k has been round town so I guess more clutch wear. I suppose it could be the clutch wearing out, but I was under the impression that they were good for more miles than my cars done.
Before the clutch cable initially snapped (I think it could well have been the original cable), the pedal was a lot lighter and the clutch engagement was spread over much more of the pedal's travel than it is now. I had another check when I was driving today, and the clutch engagment is actually mostly over only the top 1/3rd of the pedals travel which seemed a bit wierd to me. Maybe the cables are made to stretch a bit over time, or maybe I should just do what I was thinking of doing and buy a new pedal - the old one has already had a new pedal rubber on and its a bit manky and rusty, but the spring is rust free - the plastic ratchety bit does move about side to side a bit (by about 10-20mm) - dunno if this is normal.
As for the 20mm slack at the release fork, I was just going purely on the Haynes - the bit in the book that I'm referring to I have attempted to attach to this message (hopefully it will work!).

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

im gettin confused now...whats the actuial problem?

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

lol OK - sorry for the confusion I've created! I'll try and explain again - the pedal action now I've had a new clutch cable put on is totally different from how it was before - a lot of the pedal is 'dead' in terms of clutch action - the clutch engages very quickly as soon as you start pressing the pedal down, and by the time the pedal is depressed 1/3-1/2 of the way down to the floor the clutch is fully engaged, and the rest of the pedal travel is free - ie. has no effect on the clutches engagement. The old cable used to spread the clutch action over the pedal differently - the clutch engagement was spread over more of the pedal travel than it is now, and the clutch didn't bite so viciously as soon as you put any pressure on the pedal.
I can get used to it if its how the pedal should be, but the drastic change and the fact that it makes it bloody hard to do smooth changes has got me wondering if something is not on right or is knackered eg. the clutch cable or the actual clutch itself. Obviously I'd rather sort it out now than have it go bang when I'm driving round the place if there is something not right.
Hope I have de-confused things a bit! Sorry for the crap explaining Very Happy

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

maybe the cables a different length to the one before...or maybe the old one had just become stretched over time.

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

no 2 19's are the same clutch wise anyway. Cables are the same.

I swapped the 16V's cable with an old energy one, on the energy the pedal was good, on the valver is bites about 5mm from the floor.

Reverse crunches as well due to drag.

Such is life.

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

yes...clutches are not the strongest point in renault design...maybe they were good in leftahnd drive...must have been a much shorter cable....less silly corners to go thru...

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Ahh I guess I shouldn't complain then! At least the biting point is high rather than low on the pedal so I can get it in gear properly again, and the clutch seems to be disengaging OK - gives plenty of room for the cable to stretch I guess!
I reckon having been driving round with a shafted cable due to it not being through the pedal guide has probably not done the gearbox any good though - god knows how long it was only just engaging the clutch enough for me to change gears Confused

- its gone very notchy now. Box oil change in order do you guys think? 2nd is esp tricky to get into quick from 1st, but then I gather that the synchro on 2nd tends to get knackered first, so this is probably just old age. Mostly you just have to be very robotic and irritatingly precise to get even remotely speedy gearchanges, and the gearbox doesn't 'help' you into gear if ya know what I mean.

Anyways - thanks for bothering to read my topic and reassuring me that the cable isnt about to immediately arse up again!

PS Thanks to you Chris for pointing me here - great forum! I emailed you a while back about dodgy back end noises (amougst other things) which I still haven't got around to looking at yet!

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

yes Jonny the left hookers are so much better to drive, the throttle is super direct, the clutch is light and direct to. You really notice the clutch on the clio's.

Oh yeah I know who you are now Alex!