F7R TB setup

Affiliate Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 360

Chris H";p="83849 wrote:

Ben lets be honest if we were doing it we'd do it properly!

What's that supposed to mean Chris... am I doing something obviously wrong then? Ben, the 19 bay has alot more clearance between the cylinder head and the front slam panel aswell compared to the Clio so I should manage to squeeze an 80mm wide box filter (with 65mm Int. Clearance) in there easily and the 45mm trumpets will give a good 20mm clearance which is required between the trumpet mouth and the filter. I do remember asking you about a reduced size Rads a while back but you never got back to me with a price and the only other place I knew of was Pace and they want stupid money so fek that!

Seeing as you're both off in to Technical Geek mode please explain in laymans:

"but chambered harmonics are a totally different thing, all my plenhams are designed to cancel secondary reflected waves outside of the original refraction."

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

small rad and... in fact no we'd just get a decent car to start with! lol

"but chambered harmonics are a totally different thing, all my plenhams are designed to cancel secondary reflected waves outside of the original refraction."

With TB's and filter socks/open air theres only the the vacuum, the sound wave which goes back up the trumpet until it hits the air at which point it reverses and shoves a bit more in. This is original refraction.

Add a box on and you can get this happening 2 or 3 times which can help but it can also hinder greatly. These are secondary waves.

On V8's etc this can be a major problem with carbs, the mixture reveres 2/3 times by the time its int eh cylinder which makes it very rich.

Affiliate Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 360

Bloody Phase 1 owners! You'll be happy to hear the light conversion is off at the minute though Chris. Only to get her thourgh MOT on Friday mind but I thought you'd like to hear that anyway Razz

I kind of understand what you mean by Original Refraction but i'm not sure how to combat the secondary waves issue IF it occur or even how to tell if it's occuring. I've also just done a quick sketch and the entire setup with an 80mm box filter is going to be 223mm from cylinder head face to filtration so there's enough room there. I'm going to stick with the 45mm trumpets for the time being and let Dave Walker cast his eye over the setup when he maps it in April and make changes at the time as it's unlikely to be going anywhere far on startup map alone.

Level 5 User Joined: 18 Jun 2004 Posts: 114

mick, i swear i got back to you RE the short rad and needed a pattern sent to me. Prices are most certainly NOT cheap, and depends on the size of the core (relavant to the original rads dimentions) as we basically mirror the original rad bar taking 4-5" off the top.....leaving it as bolt in and using all the original mounts and hoses and temp switches etc.

In terms of harmonics, chris is right. Open ended single runners have a wave emit up from the closing of the valve. When it reaches atmosphere via a large crossectional change, it refracts and sends a negative wave back down the inlet tract. timing it correctly to reach the valve is vital. But the length of the inlet will dictate at what rpm it will reach the valve whilst its opening or open, because the waves always travel at the speed of sound, relative to actual air density at the time.

By placing a plate infront of it, most of the time called a pulse plate, it not only has the refraction, but a straight mirrored reflection. Timing this is harder to match with the refraction as you have two waves to play with and have to alter the distance between trumpet and plate.

Just for reference, i run 90mm trumpets minimum on a low rpm engine, ideally i'd want more.

Affiliate Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 360

I'd run 90mm trumpets and just stick some socks over them if I didn't think the Radiator would cause such a huge issue but it's bound to and i've just not got the money that PACE want to make a shorter version of our current Rad but with 3 cores to keep the thermal properties about the same which is why i'm opting to shield the inlet with the box, use shorter trumpets in it but increase the inlet track.

I'm sure that once the bank balance recovers from the initial out lay for TB setup and M3DK the radiator will be purchased but at the minute i've not gotthe buget to play with so again i'll have to see what Dave say's on the 7th and fingers crossed it won't be too bad.

Site Subscriber Joined: 29 Dec 2004 Posts: 395

Correct me if i'm being stupid here, but what is to stop you fitting a rad off another car that will give you the clearance you need.

e.g. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/COSWORTH-SAPPHIRE-RADIATOR-AND-FANS-RALLY-TRACK_W0QQitemZ4614312019QQcategoryZ21654QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'm sure you'll find theres loads of options when you see the range of standard rads out there, and juggling a few hoses about is going to be a lot simpler that messing with your intake.

Affiliate Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 360

There's nothing wrong with that assuming it's of a similar thermal design. Obviously it's nice to have "Plug and play" but i'm not discounting the option just yet.

Good eBay find though, cheers - watching

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

"Similar thermal design" - pah, you put hot water through it, as long as it gets cooler on the way (by an acceptable amount), it's OK in my book.

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

Neal do I have to refer you to the 'golden' rule?

Retroholic Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 3315

of course a cossy one would be ok as it cools alot more than a N/A engine got wto fans aswell lol its just if it its or not lol

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

What's the 'golden rule' Chris?

Retroholic Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 5685

Only a fool forgets the golden rule!

Site Subscriber Joined: 07 Oct 2004 Posts: 2281

'Said the rhyme committed the crime' lol

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:05 pm

Whoever smelt it dealt it!

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

whateva!

Site Subscriber Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 3547

minga

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

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Site Subscriber Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 3547

*applauds* even though i have no fecking idea what that is!!

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

southpark, the asspen trip episiode! fecking hilarious.

I love south park.

Mr. Garrison: Does anyone know what sexual harassment means?
Cartman: When you are tying to have intercourse with a special lady friend and some other guy comes up and tickles your balls from behind.

Retroholic Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 3315

yea i wan cheeeesy puffs

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

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