Problems from cold

Level 10 User Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 575

I've got a few wee niggles with the clio (Mk1 Ph2 1.4RT) at the moment.

When started from cold in the mornings my car seems to start fine and run normally for about 20 seconds, it then gets a kind of lumpy idle but the RPM has not really changed from the first 20 seconds. The lumpy idle disappears if I give it a little on the accelerator but then continues if I come off the accelerator. After about 2 minutes the lumpy idle goes comletely and the car idles fine.

I have also found that when starting from cold (for about the first 5 minutes of driving it) if I put my foot down it slows in it's acceleration about 2500 RPM but then once past about 2800RPM it continues to pull as usual. The other thing is that sometimes if I am in a high gear at a lowish speed (e.g. 30mph in 5th) the car sometimes will start to sort of kangaroo hop unless I change down a gear, putting my foot down just make this worse, this also only occurs within first few minutes of starting from cold.

I also get quite poor MPG and I am wondering if all these things could be linked in some way?

The car is fine when warmed up or even if started several hours later as long as it's been running for about 5 minutes earlier on in the day.

Has anyone got any idea as to what it could be?

I did a search and it seemed as though it was being suggested to others that the TPS could be the problem - is this likely?

Thanks.

Site Subscriber Joined: 07 Oct 2004 Posts: 2281

The problems you have when engine is cold are not necessarily related to the problems when warm since the ECU runs in two different modes depending on whether the engine's hot or cold (open/closed loop)

The lumpy idle is due to the ECU throwing in a bit more fuel to richen the mixture to get the car warmed up; it's normal.

For most of your problems a sensor or sensors in the injection system will be to fault.

Level 10 User Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 575

Thanks, the lumpy idle didn't really bother me so much but good to know it's normal.

The main thing is just the stuttering at abou 2500RPM when cold. More than anything it's just a general felling of the car not being very good to drive from cold.

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

its not normal and fit a new CTS and problem solved.

Level 10 User Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 575

I fitted a new CTS about a month ago chris after it was suggested it ,might be the problem for my poor MPG but it's had no effect on the car TBH.

Any other ideas?

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

did you get the right one? theres 3 types.

mpg can only be affected by CTS, lambda to a small degree and air temp.

CTS is normally the main cause.

Level 10 User Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 575

What are the three types?

I replaced the CTS that is in this photo here if that's what you mean:

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

theres 3 different CTS's with the same plug. Renaults way to annoy the public.

Level 10 User Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 575

How do you know if it's the right one then?

I phoned renault to ask and they told me the part number and I then got it from a motor factors just down the road. The CTS I put in looked identical to the one I took out.

Site Subscriber Joined: 07 Oct 2004 Posts: 2281

Unplug them one at a time. Assuming that it is the CTS is faulty then you should see an improvement.

All you need to do then is make a note of which one you unplugged and get a replacement.

Level 10 User Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 575

Gentle Ben";p="86586 wrote:

Unplug them one at a time. Assuming that it is the CTS is faulty then you should see an improvement.

All you need to do then is make a note of which one you unplugged and get a replacement.

Unplug what one at a time? I'm not really sure what you mean mate.

I'm pressuming from what Chris said that mhe means there are three different CTS's which can all fit in the one place.

When I phoned Reanult I was only asked if my CTS had 2 pins or 3 pins and when I said 2 pins they gave me the part number.

Site Subscriber Joined: 07 Oct 2004 Posts: 2281

There are different CTS's - one will be for the ECU to calculate mixtures, one will give a reading to your temperature guage in the dash etc.

If the one you changed didn't get rid of the problems then you could well have changed the wrong one.

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

ben hush my man, hush.

theres 2 NTC CTS and 1 PTC CTS, this means the wrong one fitted will give the wrong reading.

The black CTS is the ptc, the white ones are the ntc and they have different start out resistance.

they shoudl have asked for your chassis number and engine code for the tright one.

In fact pm me them and I will will give you a part number and you can see if it matches.

Level 10 User Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 575

Cheers chris. I'll PM you those details in a wee while when I get a chance to check.

As I say the guy asked what coluor it was and if it was 2 pins or three on the connector. I just told him it was white with two pins and he gave me the number.

Level 10 User Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 575

PM finaly sent Chris.

Level 10 User Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 575

Thanks to some help from Chris I have managed to find out that I did fit the correct CTS the last time.

Has anyone got any ideas as to what else could be causing the problems?

My MPG at the moment is giving me on average about 70 miles to Â£10. I tried driving in the most economic way possible last time I put some in and still only got just over 75 miles from it so I think there is definately something wrong, and not just my imagination.

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

well it coudl eb a multitue of things.

air leak, dribbly injector, dodgy inlet air temp, duff engine (how fast does it go?) etc etc

Level 10 User Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 575

lol, not the answer I wanted - but I suppose it's what I expected TBH. The car goes OK, 0-60 time is about book figure and generally seems OK only really seems a bit slow when cold as it is a bit hesitant.

Is there anything you would recommend as a starting point as TBH I wouldn't know what best to start with?

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

clean the TB up and expecially the air temp sender, its on the TB and has a small hoop aroudn it.

Level 10 User Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 575

Just to check if this could suggest anything else.

Recetly I noticed on a few ocassions that if I get out of the car either just after turning off the engine or when it's still running there is a very slight smell of petrol. I'm not sure if this is only when cold or anytime TBH as I haven't paid that much attention to when it occurs. It could have been there for some time as it really is a very faint smell that I just happened to notice one day and have now been trying to see if it's there.

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

you have been told time and again what to do, so either do it, scrap the car or ask elsewhere.