Steering Vibration Problems (Clios Suck)

Level 6 User Joined: 16 Dec 2005 Posts: 145

Right i will copy and paste this from another forum so i can yield the help of experts in this forum, its a little lengthy, bare with me.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Right basically ill explain my situation, there were a number of thread a while ago with me having problems with my steering, id had some engine work done including a new track rod end which obviously screwed the tracking up (it wasnt tracked as the guy who did the work didnt have tracking equipment)

From then on i had a vibration when cornering hard left and when pulling away in 1st and second id have a rumbling vibration felt through the wheel, however when corenring hard left it would sorta fade in and out depending on speed and harshness of turn......anyway.....

So i decide to have it trakced, ATS does it, its 20mm out and they do it. Great i thought.

Car rubs on full lock right now on the inside of the arhces , so the centre of track is out. FFS, at this point i go back and they tell me its not their fault and a proper garage will need to straighten the whole steering system.

Anyway i goto a proper gargae and have this done, great.....No vibration at all when cornering or pulling away hard, and no rubbing on full lock, Hurray!

Nope......I decide to fit some lowering springs to the car with Bass Direct, so off we go, jobs a goodun and they are on and fine, they are only -35mm (we think).

So when driving home i notice these vibrations returned, and now when travveling at 70 - 90mph i get a juddering through the wheel about 5mm either way and it oscilated in time with the wheels. Get vibration when turning left and when pulling away, i NEVER get it when cornering hard right though?

So basically, before i get it tracked for a 4th time is it common for change of suspension to knock the tracking out or effect it, i really am at a loose end and it REALLY is annyoing me! Stupid clios

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Drive down to Bass Directs = fine.

Drive back = vibrations while accelerarting hard 1st and 2nd, and wheel now wobbeling at 70-90mph.

What i must stress is the vibrations arent constant uniform vibrations they will pulsate almost randomly its very hard to explain in words.

What can i have cocked up on?

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

buggered bottom ball joint/s

Level 6 User Joined: 16 Dec 2005 Posts: 145

But how can the car be fine on the drive down and then suddenly go pear shaped on the way back.

Its got to have been something i buggered up myself surely? Cant lowering knock the tracking out substantially?

Level 8 User Joined: 07 Sep 2004 Posts: 328

did they take the bottom ball joints off to fit your new suspension!!!!!!

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

bottom balljoint going can do this, it can cause a heavy wander in the steering the faster you go.

Be aware balljoint play normally can only be felt when the cars on the ground of the balljoints unbolted.

So with it on the ground get a bar in there and wiggle.

Level 6 User Joined: 16 Dec 2005 Posts: 145

OK ill check the ball joints, but im still not convinced how they can be fine one minute and then bust the next (after a simple journey).

Me and a mate (Bass Direct) fitted the new springs, all we did was remove the struts change springs and refit.

Although there was a lot of yanking of the hub to get the struts back in, thats probably broken something.

It'd be so much simpler if one of you lived near me and could drive it and see for yourself, oh well, wish id never touched the stupid suspension now.

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

with the car lowered the driveshafts are at a longer extension, theres more waggle in it, so any play will be highlighted.

Level 6 User Joined: 16 Dec 2005 Posts: 145

Ok cheers Chris, ive never come accross "Ball Joints" before in the never ending problems with my clio.

I know where they are but i dont understand where to stick the bar (noob sorry Sad

)

Level 6 User Joined: 10 Nov 2005 Posts: 149

bar between wishbone and hub.. and when you lower it you change the natural angle the balljoints sit at, so i guess an immediate change when lowering is possible..

Level 6 User Joined: 16 Dec 2005 Posts: 145

Ok ive driven the car a bit more and theres a few more thinks i can note...

The Wheel wobbling at 70-90mph is a different thing to the wheel vibration all togther two seperate problems, im 80% sure the wobbling is just the wheels needing re-balancing.

The grinding i can feel it while going slow i was doing about sub 10mph in first gear turning left out a of a junction and i could feel it.

it DOES NOT do it when decellearting, i was doing about 45mph in 2nd and took a left corner but had no accelerator on at all and it just wasnt there, as soon as i touch the accelerator its there.

:S

Level 9 User Joined: 03 Jul 2006 Posts: 412

That problem itself sounds like the outer CV joint on the driver's side - this will be most noticable when turning left on full lock at about 10mph, and it will also be a lot more noticable when there's power going through the shaft, i.e. acceleration. It will be a quite noticable knocking sound. You could try jacking up that side and turning the wheel to feel grinding (change the steering to full lock in either direction), also insect the rubber gaiter around the joint itself for splits.

Level 6 User Joined: 16 Dec 2005 Posts: 145

Ok, what i think i might try and do is go find an abandoned car park and go around on full look 10-20mph and see how bad it is, without looking like a chav.

Ill jack up the car and inspect it today cheers for your help guys.

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

stick the back wheels on the front to see if it is wheel balance, if it changes then thats 1 problem away.

The other griding one could be a CV, impossible to say could be loads of things.

Level 6 User Joined: 16 Dec 2005 Posts: 145

Ok im going to go out and do that now.

Also is run it in gear with it on axle stands in 1st gear yesterday, drivers side spins fine, apssenger side stutters, is this ok? Becuase driveshafts are different lengths?

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

driveshafts are equal legnths thats why they dont; suffer torque steer like vauxhals etc as bad.

it will be sticking on the brake when running it on stands.

also when you run it on stands the shafts will look like they are bent due to the driveshaft joint design.

Level 6 User Joined: 16 Dec 2005 Posts: 145

Ok ive got the car up on axle stands..

I can see nothing out of the ordinary at all, there are no split CV boots or any bushes that look worn e.t.c

I revved the car in 2nd gear upto about 40mph with no wheel on and turned the wheel shaprly lef to right to try and feel something, but the steering wheel is smooth as silk there is no vibration at all, so i am guessing that rules driveshafts/hubs out.

I can feel no play in the steering system at all by yanking the disc back and forth on both sides there is no movment at all, the bearings are fine as is track rod ends and no play in the rack e.t.c

I will get a few pictures of ball joints e.t.c

Level 6 User Joined: 16 Dec 2005 Posts: 145

AHHH I SEE THE PROBLEM I THINK!!!

Drivers side wheel arch inside the downpipe is rubbing right on the steering rack, and when turning heavily its resting quite hard on the steering rack causing all the vibration!

Level 6 User Joined: 16 Dec 2005 Posts: 145

Im sure this must be the problem! Please share you thoughts Chris H!

You can see marks on the downpipe where the rack has rubbed on it, and it explains why the vibration is strong and feels in time with the RPM of the engine (and not the RPM of the wheels)

The pictures may be upside down sorry, the camera was all contorted trying to twist it through so probably isnt the right way up.

[img:640:480:5da8a21356]http://www.clio16valver.circlehosting.net/temp/dp.jpg[/img:5da8a21356]

[img:640:480:5da8a21356]http://www.clio16valver.circlehosting.net/temp/dp2.jpg[/img:5da8a21356]

Harsh acceleration in 1st and 2nd = downpipe moves and goes backwards hitting the pipe, by the time i get to 3rd, 4th and 5th there not enough acceleration to make the downpipe hit it. It really makes sense to me?

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

yep looke like it.

Thinking about it bens old white clio with a scorpion sysetm made the driveshaft gaiter rub on the downpipe.

what system you got? maybe adjust the tiop moutn to move the engine forward a bit

Level 6 User Joined: 16 Dec 2005 Posts: 145

Ive got a magnex exhaust system with a janspeed decat.

The engine mount by the power steering pump yeah?

Jack engine sump (with block of wood), then undo it and budge it forward?

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

yeah that one, no need for a jack unless yourt a fairy, loosen the bolts and pull it forward.