supercharging F7P?

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

ive been looking at superchargers recently.

Ebay usually has a number of them on there, and i dont mean the silly electric PC fan type, but the proper type as fitted to the BMW mini.

The Eaton M45:

http://www.automotive.eaton.com/product/engine_controls/M45.html

These are quite appealing...

If i were to fabricate a manifold and mounts to fit the unit to the F7P, and took a longer belt off the aux drive to power it, would I need very much more in the way of mods to be up and running?

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

oh yeah, and i appreciate that running crazy boost on the stock engine setup would be foolish... but thats easily sorted with pulley size isnt it?

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

the reason theres so many of these about just now is the bmw S has an upgrade and it involves a better charger.

Yep basically your right.

You have not however compensated for the fueling.

Also once again I would like to try and get rid of the whole boost thing, more boost doesn't mean more power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

Chris the way I understood it (or thought i did), the lambda takes care of fuelling adjustments?

Or do you mean that the stock setup couldnt flow enough to satisfy?

In that case id need bigger injectors, and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator?

Gay Rights Activist Joined: 07 Apr 2004 Posts: 1268

the lambda sensor adjusts back 2 stoichiometric yes, but it doesnt have the scope to adjust to cope with boost.
u can buy a turbo fastchip 4 the F7P for 350 euros (it says 585 iirc on the site, but i emailed Henk and asked wot (I mean what really) the best price he could do 1 for). or u can buy a 5th injector set-up, that uses a second lambda sensor to control 5th injector to keep fuelling to wotever level u set it 2. this is not ideal however since no inlet manifold has perfect distribution i.e. 1 cylinder may run lean since the injector is at a common point.

also, look at the supercharged clio on ebay. it has the sc integrated in2 the inlet manifold

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

I could alternatively use megasquirt

http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html

This just in itself appeals to me as well.

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

Righty Stan covered some of it.

You have positive boost. The MAP sensor in the cars is only a 1 BAr sensor, you need a 2 BAR sensor for it to give any sort of fuelign accuracy near atmospheric or true boost situations.

The stock ECU will not have a clue what to do with positive boost signals.

Lambda sensors are not used as often as you would think, idle, steady throttle and over run, accelerating or at wot (I mean what really) it is ignored. Thats why when you see a big jag etc boot it theres a puff of black smoke from the exhausts.

Boys on Migweb have used megasquirt, some have had problems with them but not many.

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

right, i shall doggedly trawl migweb tonight then...

want to mod something big Smile

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

what is megasquirt used for then? i havent read thr page yet but in a nutshell whats it good for?

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

its a programmable ECU.

Its self build too.

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

If i break my engine with it, no big deal... as Chris will readily tell you, engines are ten a penny Smile

Its not clear to me yet how ignition is taken care of with megasquirt.

Level 5 User Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 107

Can I just ask, what are the injectors from the 21 turbo like? Presumably much higher flow rate and would they fit?

Does anybody know more about the fastchip turbo chip? I presume it is a pre-set map so would this be ok for a s/c conversion?

I guess what I am asking is could you replace the map sensor with a 2 bar jobbie, fit 21 turbo injectors and a turbo chip and run a supercharger effectively like this?

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

21t injectors will no doubt flow more.

But yes a 2 bar map, new injectors (may not be needed), ECU map suitable then yes it will work.

Level 5 User Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 107

One other thing. What measure is there to vent excess airflow when not on boost? ie at idle etc.

I would guess you need some kind of bypass valve or something, are these built into the charger or do you need to hook something up separately?

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

don't bother with theat crap its not needed.

Some do have bypass valves or clutches.

Level 5 User Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 107

OK, do they require an oil feed? And am I right in thinking that the s/c should be mounted between the throttle body and the inlet manifold?

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

yeah its mounted between the TB and the manifold (or can be integrated).

The SC is driven by the engine directly, so the speed (boost) of the super charger is always directly proportional to engine speed. Therefore no blow off valves or wastegate needed. Can adjust the boost by using a different size pulley to drive the SC...

Level 5 User Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 107

Yeah was thinking an M45 would be nice and cheap and probably wouldn't need any internal work as it doesn't flow huge amounts.

Alternator would probably need moving and manifold fabrication would be an arse.

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

the way i see it, the s/c would take up the space currently inhabited by the stock inlet manifold, and a little stubby manifold (needs investigation) to mate it with the head.

drive belt would be relatively easy.

Level 5 User Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 107

Yeah but where would you go to get that made up?

I was thinking it might be easier to mount sc underneath inlet manifold and link the 2 via an intercooler or charge cooler. That way you wouldn't need to chop about with inlet manifold or sc and could just get some brackets made up for the connecting pipes/hoses.

Make sense?

Level 4 User Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 89

Rip out the ps pump and rack, stick the SC in there.