supercharging F7P?

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

Ben, I have the facilities available to me at the moment to fabricate pretty much anything i might need.

as for s/c location, look at this picture of the installation in a clio that was on ebay:

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

the charger has its own oil resovoir, pressure valves are only needed if you have the charger making boost at idle. More a big diesel thing really.

The charger on the clio is actually touching the slam panel.

A centrifugal charger is much smaller and a lot better, for these engienes, although the low end gain wouldn't be as much as a screw.

Level 5 User Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 107

Yeah the thing is though, I would only really consider this as a project that wouldn't break the bank and could be done in stages.

Centrifugal chargers are mucho dollar are they not?

Not interested in rebuilt internals or immaculate finish. Would just be a laugh to get working.

One more question. The fastchip turbo chip - that will be a preset map for their turbo conversion right? So would it just be a case of 'fingers crossed' that it fuels a s/c conversion correctly?

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

no fingers crossed required.

if it works for turbo, it automatically works for supercharger too, all other things being equal.

engine map is done by manifold pressure, in the case of turbo or supercharger forced induction, the pressure can go above atmospheric pressure (1 bar), thats why the 2 bar map sensor is needed, and the extended engine map into that region - it doesnt matter what is actually being used to produce that pressure.

Gay Rights Activist Joined: 07 Apr 2004 Posts: 1268

but mapping a turbocharger set-up is harder than a s.c one, since boost is not directly proportional to engine speed. this means turbo boost is not fixed for a given engine speed

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

a turbo chip will not fuel a super charger correctly.

Neile all other things being equal never happens and it really doesn't apply here at all.

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

could you be more specific why it wouldnt work?

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

totally different fueling needs between a charger and turbo.

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

but why though?

Gay Rights Activist Joined: 07 Apr 2004 Posts: 1268

boost produced by a turbo is more load dependent, rather than with a s.c where boost at any given engine speed is more or less fixed.

think about with a turbo.....it can produce say 5psi at say 3000RPM, but it can also produce the same boost with greater engine speed and but with increased load i.e. at 6000RPM it can produce anything up to its max boost depending on load.

i may not be explaining it very well!!

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

yeah i get you, so whats the best way of adapting the engine management to run a supercharger?

Surely for the reasons above, the turbo map would be more conservative than a supercharger one potentially could, to sort of 'cover all bases' (if you get me)? I would have thought that you could therefore use the turbo chip with the supercharger.

Gay Rights Activist Joined: 07 Apr 2004 Posts: 1268

i would think the turbo map will work with a s.c, but it dont think it would work the other way round i.e using a s.c map on a turbo.

ask henk: info@fastchip.nl

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

a turbo map will run a supercharger but not at best efficiency.

With turbos on boost they run very rich, to cover cooling and so on, this isn't so much a problem with superchargers.

I don't know how to explain it so its understandable.

Level 5 User Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 107

Ok I emailed Henk, who seems like a top bloke by the way, and he said that he can map the chip to run it fine, but he needs to know the CR and max boost of the s/c

Now originally I was going to run std compression, but is there a thicker aftermarket head gasket/decompression plate that I could fit, as a fairly cheap/easy way to reduce compression slightly?

If so does anybody know what the CR would then be?

Cheers

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

i dont know of anywhere that seels a thicker HG, might have to skim the pistons instead.

the boost from the sc is up to you, you can change that by altering the size of the pulley, and there are graphs on the eaton web page which show the boost generated by varying rpms.

Gay Rights Activist Joined: 07 Apr 2004 Posts: 1268

Spesso sell 1.6mm (iirc) headgaskets

Retroholic Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 5685

Spesso 1.6mm gasket (available from demon tweeks) on standard pistons gives 9.7:1

Gay Rights Activist Joined: 07 Apr 2004 Posts: 1268

there we are, so skim pistons to give CR=8.5:1 and u could run nice boost

Level 5 User Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 107

Cheers for all the input.

Few more quick questions:

What is standard CR?
How do I know how much to have skimmed off the pistons?
In terms of rigging up drive of the s/c pulley, would it be acceptible to run another belt from alternator to s/c? Or would there be a better way?

Ta

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

thats right fuck it up before you start, clever.

Also Henk map it from knowing max boost and and compresion ratio. Is this man an all knowing F1 god like creature?

What if you simply adjust the cams? the boost and compresion ratio will change. What abotu part throttle thasts gives a different compresion ratio.

this is why i never bother when it gets to the stupid stage which it has a while back.

Level 5 User Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 107

Temper temper.

Is it the weather?

C'mon man, there are lots of us who don't know what we are talking about, hence we ask lots of silly questions.