Tortion Bars?

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

so you only replaced 1 rear damper?

Site Subscriber Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Posts: 731

I could only source 1 for the moment but have two spanky new ones ordered that should arrive tomoze or friday =-) Not particularly happy about only 1 being changed but since it's for less than a week I honestly didn't think it'd matter.

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

wait until you fit the 2 of them and see what happens in regards to ride height.

Site Subscriber Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Posts: 731

Will do m8ty. The replacement was a 2nd hand 1 anyway so should be brill when I get t new ones on.

Site Subscriber Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Posts: 731

Just out of curiosity what possibilitys are there to explain the drop in height.

Tortion bars clicked down a nothch?

Rear beam mounting points distorted from rust/fatigue.

Dampers?

Wheels bearings?

Also how much does the car get lowered by when changing the tortion bars? i.e 1 click down = 10mm drop.

I haven't got time to work on the car till tomoze so I'd like to have the best idea of what to look for while I'm there. Any pics of how the rear beam should be and also the mounting points would be of great help if anyone has any.

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

torsion bars 1 click can be 2mm or 120mm. its not a matter of turning it a click thats what fuckign retards like car mags say. They don't know a torsion bar from theiur fridge

If the bar had turned itself round a click it would be on its arse as the splines are not evactly tiny it woudl have just dropped.

if the rear seats are sitting funny then the rear berams mounts have gone.

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

Here's a pic of me swapping the rear beam for another one on my hatch. You can see the 2 mounting points sticking out towards the front of the car at the ends of the beam. There are 4 studs on the shell (2 each side) which pass through those mountings and are secured with nuts. Those 4 studs are the only things holding the beam to the shell.

The bars cant have accidentally 'clicked down a notch', they have to be forcibly pulled out on their splines, the height adjusted, and then hammered back in.

Some people say that there is no relation between a spline and the change in ride height, but I say that there clearly is a geometrical relationship. Using that principle in practice to set the ride height however would be another matter altogether.

wheel bearings, nope, no way for them adjust the height.

Dampers dont affect ride height either, although some dispute that too

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

obviosuly theres a relationchip.

Theres fewer spline son 1 end and of different sizes so dependign on where its inserted the height will change. The bar also twists, so 1 click can raise it or lower it.

Whne lowering the bar should slide in and out easily when you do it right.

The onyl thing thats putting any preload ont he bar with the car off its wheels is the damper.

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

Chris H wrote:

Theres fewer spline son 1 end and of different sizes so dependign on where its inserted the height will change. The bar also twists, so 1 click can raise it or lower it.

Precisely. If you mark both ends of the bars against the bits that they slide into, and you know how many splines are on both ends, you can postion the bar to set a certain height.

eg. lets say for easy numbers there are 36 splines on the outer end of the bar. If you take the bars out, and move the arms so that the bars slide back in the same postion in the middle, but with a 1 spline difference on the outside spline, then the arm will have raised 10 degrees. You also know the distance from the bar to the axle, so you can work out the height change. Or you can do it the other way round.

Of course a 1 spline movement on the outside will be a massive change of ride height and thats where the different number of splines on the inner end comes in so you can get all sorts of intermediate increments. Thats where working it out becomes impractical.

but yeah, the idea of lowering the car by a 'click' is an idiot's concept

Site Subscriber Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Posts: 731

So really I'm looking at either the mounting points for the rear beam or the dampers. As the dampers are being changed tomorrow or sunday I should narrow it down fairly easily. Cheers for the pics as well. I have a good idea of what I'm workin with now, although the whole tortion bar thing confuses me so I may have to fiddle and see for myself.

I also wonder if a previous owner fiddled with the tortion bars and didn't get it quite right, however this still doesn't explain the recent drop in ride height.

Site Subscriber Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Posts: 731

I'm still waiting for those dampers to arrive.

Did have a look yesterday at the rear beam and the mounting points look fine and haven't distorted.

I'm confused

What the ferk has happened?!?!?

Spammer Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 5717

just chuck new dampers in there and see what comes out ,i had exactly the same problem (mine was worse )

sometimes the solution is simple how much ever people try to put it in a complicated way Wink

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

schakal wrote:

sometimes the solution is simple how much ever people try to put it in a complicated way Wink

Or a logically reasoned way, based on fact, as the case may be. Wink

Site Subscriber Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Posts: 731

Quote:

Or a logically reasoned way, based on fact, as the case may be.

Ah yes good point....however logic and reason has not yet explained why the arse end of my car is close to scraping the floor Wink

Spammer Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 5717

1st of march the day i bought the chamade

this is a few weeks after with the turbines on still with the old rear shocks

and this is what it looks like after changing the shocks

SHOCKING ?????

Laughing

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

okay schakal well the shocks you took off were either the wrong length or fucked.

Or the new ones youve put on are.

Spammer Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 5717

you are it making sense neal Rolling Eyes

the shocks i took off were de carbons(original ones more likely) ,i still have them in the garden Wink

the new one i put on there are not decarbons but exactly the same length as the ones i took off (once i can pull the decarbon shock all the way up)

i cant put fancy pictures up here of myself with a spanner in hand changing the rear axle of my car but i think i got this right and you got to let it go ,dont you think ????

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

schakal wrote:

you are it making sense neal Rolling Eyes

No, you're the one not making sense

schakal wrote:

the new one i put on there are not decarbons but exactly the same length as the ones i took off (once i can pull the decarbon shock all the way up)

OK, so lets get this straight. You know from your own experience that you can extend and compress the shocks by hand and they have no spring force in them to speak of, and yet you still think that somehow they are determining the ride height? Confused

By the way, you missed out your usual "whos the daddy now???" comment Razz

Spammer Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 5717

no need to say more tbh matey,i stand my side and you do yours

pictures tell you all imo

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

schakal wrote:

no need to say more tbh matey,i stand my side and you do yours

pictures tell you all imo

yes they do, they tell you that

Neal 19 16v wrote:

okay schakal well the shocks you took off were either the wrong length or fucked.

Or the new ones youve put on are.

Forum Moderator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 1356

schakal wrote:

1st of march the day i bought the chamade

this is a few weeks after with the turbines on still with the old rear shocks

and this is what it looks like after changing the shocks

SHOCKING ?????

Laughing

The car is parked round a different way in both pictures. Arse to the wall the rear setup will compress somewhat due to the weight of the car being pulled by, you guessed it gravity. The opposite would happen when parked the other way.