USB plug in diag tool for R19/Clio/R21 (and Megane*)

[tracklogic]

Just trying to judge interest on this.... finally got my module working basically its a PCB that sits between the diag. socket on the car and converts the information from your ECU to a USB socket so you can plug your laptop into the car and get the following parameters -

MAP pressure (in Kpa)
Coolant temperature
Inlet temperature
Battery voltage
Lambda %
Engine RPM
Fuel injector opening times
Ignition knock %
Ignition advance in degrees
Injector duty cycle
Idle valve %

On R21s -

Wastegate duty cycle

Once I receive Megane F7R ECU I'll make sure support will be added for that (hopefully they didnt change too much when they went to Fenix 5 which the Megane uses).

So its basically like an XRD (Fastchip) display but rather than having a 4 line LCD you use your laptop, probably looking about £40.00 a module.

Let me know your thoughts please Developed this mainly for my own purposes but thoguht it might be a good little diagnostic tool for people to use?

Matt

[gtmatt]

will this come with mounting instuctions etc ??

Also do we need any software on the laptop ??

thanks matt

[tracklogic]

Thats the software as it stands, probably will tart it up a bit has basic data logging etc.. to a .csv file

Aye I'll need to think about how best to package it all up if theres sufficent interest, probably look at nominating a couple of testers from this forum if people are up for it?

[Chris H]

MAP pressure (in Kpa)
Coolant temperature
Inlet temperature
Battery voltage
Lambda %
Engine RPM
Fuel injector opening times
Ignition knock %
Ignition advance in degrees
Injector duty cycle
Idle valve %

The XRD is missing most of those functions, well the older ones anyway.

Mine doesn't display knock or advance or duty cycle either.

the lambda should be in voltage as percentage is no use.

I would like a look when I come for that bottom end if thats ok?

[tracklogic]

Originally Posted by Chris H

MAP pressure (in Kpa)
Coolant temperature
Inlet temperature
Battery voltage
Lambda %
Engine RPM
Fuel injector opening times
Ignition knock %
Ignition advance in degrees
Injector duty cycle
Idle valve %

The XRD is missing most of those functions, well the older ones anyway.

Mine doesn't display knock or advance or duty cycle either.

the lambda should be in voltage as percentage is no use.

I would like a look when I come for that bottom end if thats ok?

Aye no probs Chris, was hoping youd be up for testing it anyway as one of the resident Renault gurus

[Chris H]

have you just erm 'cough' 'adapted' and xrd or did you actually get right into the ecu's?

For example do you know the LTF's and STF's of these old ecu's?

The XRD is a very good tool, I find the information it gives invaluable.

I need to dig that loom out for you as well. Still not sure exactly when I can get over though mate, hoping for the weekend.

[tracklogic]

Originally Posted by Chris H

have you just erm 'cough' 'adapted' and xrd or did you actually get right into the ecu's?

For example do you know the LTF's and STF's of these old ecu's?

The XRD is a very good tool, I find the information it gives invaluable.

I need to dig that loom out for you as well. Still not sure exactly when I can get over though mate, hoping for the weekend.

I worked out the protocol based upon a few months digigng and head scratching! one thing i can't do yet that Fastchips can do is modification of the fueling and ignition tables through the diagnostic socket, i need to get my head around how hes doing that must be an easy way. I've done some mods to the EEPROMs using TunerPro but thats a bit of a pain because you have to desolder the EEPROM from the PCB reflash it and then solder it back in (like the Pennyduck chips on Ebay) which I think puts them out of reach for the general enthusist. ill send off for a couple of boards so if ive got to time to build the PCBs up you can take one back to scotland with ya if you fancy

LTFs and STFs? Not come across those abbreviations before... do spill :P

[Chris H]

thats the problem with the old ECU's they are ROM's

newer stuff is all flash which can be update dvia diagnostic socket.

Theres no way to plug and play a stock ecu map like this without replacing the chip itself.

STF and LTF are fuelling corrections made to the base maps.

Short term and long term trims are added to the basic injection calculations. They are percentages added.

STF is continuously updated and should oscillate around 0% when the engines running closed loop feedback. Generally when the value of STF goes above 10 - 25 % fuel is added on (or taken away), stf

LTF is a semi permanent change to the base map, base calculation, pinhole leak in a vacuum pipe LTF is added to, the ecu retains this value so its still there at next engine start.

LTF is added or subtracted when the stf goes over its threshold.

most will only got a max of 25% ltf either way, you will only get this is the lambda is faulty or there is another fault, eg leaky injector, split pipe etc

[tracklogic]

Ah ok, never heard those trim values called STF and LTF before learn something new everyday cheers.

[Neal]

Originally Posted by terrastudios

Just trying to judge interest on this.... finally got my module working basically its a PCB that sits between the diag. socket on the car and converts the information from your ECU to a USB socket so you can plug your laptop into the car and get the following parameters -

MAP pressure (in Kpa)
Coolant temperature
Inlet temperature
Battery voltage
Lambda %
Engine RPM
Fuel injector opening times
Ignition knock %
Ignition advance in degrees
Injector duty cycle
Idle valve %

On R21s -

Wastegate duty cycle

Once I receive Megane F7R ECU I'll make sure support will be added for that (hopefully they didnt change too much when they went to Fenix 5 which the Megane uses).

So its basically like an XRD (Fastchip) display but rather than having a 4 line LCD you use your laptop, probably looking about £40.00 a module.

Let me know your thoughts please Developed this mainly for my own purposes but thoguht it might be a good little diagnostic tool for people to use?

Matt

That is super awesome, mega kudos to you!

I'd deffo have one of those units of you in a heartbeat. I'm sure you'd have no shortage of takers tbh.

[Chris H]

they are industry standard!

example of LTF



STF note its cycling from a neg to positive value

[tracklogic]

All my ECU backgrounds mainly based around the Megasquirt way and they certainly arent industry standard by any means! I ended up rewriting a chunk of the flywheel decoding routines for the Megasquirt to support the Megane flywheel as its not a true 60-2 wheel that was fun. Pondering now whether or not its worth putting the MS back on or if its worthwhile seeing if I can get the Fenix to support my ITBs... anyway thats another project

[tracklogic]

Originally Posted by Neal

That is super awesome, mega kudos to you!

I'd deffo have one of those units of you in a heartbeat. I'm sure you'd have no shortage of takers tbh.

Sweet Neal, thanks will keep you posted.

[Chris H]

the only ones that use the 60-2 are bosch based systems tbh

the fenix could work but it will involve fun things like MAP issues and ISCV control.

[tracklogic]

Originally Posted by Chris H

the only ones that use the 60-2 are bosch based systems tbh

the fenix could work but it will involve fun things like MAP issues and ISCV control.

I'm sure the megane F7R-714 has 60 teeth but has the two long gaps between the flywheel teeth (spacings like the 44 tooth one on the F7P), been a while since I did that code though so might not be 60 teeth, anyway the two large gaps between the teeth made the MS not sync properly so I ended up writing a lump of code to sync on the two large missing teeth.

Aye the major problem with the ITBs is the fact the MAP jumps from ~50kpa to 90kpa when you just crack open the throttle plates, ended up running AlphaN on the MS on the F7P engine to get round this but couldnt get it through emissions, it was a pig to try and tune myself I had briefly thought about sitting some electronics in line with the MAP sensor to try and emulate a MAP signal for the Fenix based upon TPS etc.. (so effectively using the Fenix as an Alpha-N controller) but not sure how well it would work.

[Chris H]

what bit of the emission's did you struggle with?

thats why most itb cars run without a vacuum reference.

You can get it close enough with rpm and throttle position as an indicator of load.

with no way to have proper closed loop feedback your gonna struggle with strict emission compliance.

[tracklogic]

I struggled to get the mapping right, a lot of people manage to map the car when its on the road with a wideband but with the car being SORNED i only had the length of my parents driveway i ended up either making the thing pig rich so it would be driveable for the short length or so lean it bucked. This is one of the reasons why I want to get the car at least back on the road, though I'll probably end up saving my pennies and taking it to a dyno and getting them to set it up properly next time.

[Chris H]

time for your parents to buy a grander house I think...

hardest bit is the low throttle openings, as big airflow changes happen for little throttle movement. Not helped by cheap TPS's either, some don't like to go to resolutions where every degree matters.

Trouble is finding someone competent to set it up even on rollers.

Never used mega squirt myself, tried omex and the weber alpha one a few times though and I was very impressed with the SDS one.

[tracklogic]

In the shower I've been thinking about how to reprogram the EEPROM on the ECU without having to keep taking the 27C128 out, and I guess this is how Fastchip are doing it as well. When the 68HC11E9 starts up a custom boot loader will be run, this will wait for a short period (~1s) to see if it receives a known set of bytes, if it receives these then it waits for further commands for controlling the 27C128 (i.e. erasing certain sectors and rewriting), if these bytes are not received then the boot loader terminates and jumps to the address where the Renault firmware starts.

[tracklogic]

Back to the original topic on-hand, i'm pondering now as well as we know the vehicle speed from the gearbox sensor we can calculate things shove ana like 0-60 times using the USB plug in tool, shove an accelerometer and SD card slot on it as well and its a pretty nifty little data logger.